Interviews
John Hagelston from Rhino Records talks to Britsound
Interview with John Hagelston from Rhino Records, November 2007
Rhino Records has just released The Brit Box available in record shops now. In Britsound's opinion this is easily the 2007 Essential Box Set of the Year and we recommend anyone who loves British music to check it out.
RQ: It’s now out in the shops: The Brit Box: U.K. Indie, Shoegaze And Brit-Pop Gems Of The Last Millenium. Now, in the liner notes of this box set you write that this is an idea that has been with you for a long time. When did you first have the idea for this box set?
JH: It was probably mid to late ‘90s, around the time when some of this music was being recorded. We put together a series called Poptopia, and a couple of bands that are in the Brit Box were actually on that earlier series, and we thought, “You know what? It might be good to do a Britpop thing as well.” We pitched it a couple of times to the sales and marketing folks here, and it didn’t really catch on. It kind of went away for a little bit, and then a couple of years ago, a woman in our human resources department - Ruth Martinez - was a big fan of shoegazing music. She sort of pitched the idea, “Hey, why don’t you do a shoegazing compilation, and if you wanted to, you could broaden it a little bit.” That was when the ball began rolling again, and it actually came out as a four CD box set, going back to the indie years, and a little bit beyond the glory days of Britpop.
RQ: So the original idea came up in the ‘90s but it was shelved because it wasn’t deemed a marketable idea? What was the initial impression?
JH: I think that the feeling was ... it was a couple of guys that weren’t really hip to this kind of sound and their thinking was that most people are going to have these records. If they’re into this music, they are already going to have these albums. They just weren’t really seeing that there was a big audience for British alternative music here in the States.
RQ: So why do you think that the time is now right for this compilation to come out - this box set? What do you think has changed between now and then?
JH: I think there is a little bit more distance between the music and I think a little bit more nostalgia. People who had been fans back in the day - if they were college students or high school students - now they’ve got a little bit more money. They can afford a larger box set. I think there are some different people here that have got some a more open mind to trying some of the newer music and I am just grateful that it has happened.
RQ: It is long overdue; a box set covering the post-Britpop years of British music. Now, some of the bands on this compilation - on the four CDs - some of the bands have almost been forgotten in the midst of time. I’m thinking, for example, of the Boo Radleys, Stereolab, Mega City Four: How did you come to choose these songs to be on the four CDs? What was the process in choosing the music?
JH: There was actually a small team of us, like five people here at Rhino who are fans of the music, and we sort of pitched around some of our favorites: again, some of the forgotten gems, as well as the more obvious choices, like The Smiths and Oasis, and bands like that. We ran the list past a couple of folks who we thought would have some good input. So basically, it was sort of a mish-mash as far as pulling together the compilation.
RQ: Also, there were some notable absences, like Radiohead, for example. You also admit there is no House of Love on there, and Slowdive. Why was that? Is that because you couldn’t get the licensing rights, the permissions?
JH: Yeah, the three that you mentioned; those were all things that we went out to the record labels and said, “Hey, can we have these tracks for our box set?” And for various reasons, we were denied. I’m not really certain on the specifics; whether it was something where the band didn’t want to be involved in compilations or ... I know that there were a couple of places where we just couldn’t figure out who controlled the tracks in the U.S. For Slowdive, it probably would have been easier if this box had been a UK release - we would have known exactly who to go to - but here in the States it’s a little bit more clouded who controls it legally, so unfortunately they are absent.RQ: I get the impression with this box set that it was lovingly picked and put together; compiled with the idea that there were some real hidden gems to be found. Some bands that obviously, if you missed them first time round, now’s a great opportunity for you to really hear what they were about. Was that your intention?
JH: Absolutely. I think there is a running theme in this box set. I think it was well put by one of the producers that’s interviewed in the notes - Steven Street - who calls it basically guitar-oriented, song-oriented music. There are a number of British acts that were very popular during that era - the Spice Girls being one of them - but not as much as a guitar alternative type thing. We wanted to spotlight groups that had really great songs, for the most part groups that had written melodic material. They had a guitar indie rock approach to it. I’m not sure if the thread runs clearly all the way through, but to me that’s what I hear when I listen to the discs on this box.
RQ: You do have bands like New Order and James - well-know bands - and The Verve, but you also have bands like Inspiral Carpets, and obviously The Wonder Stuff, which were massive in the U.K. Let me ask you though, these bands at the time didn’t necessarily have a massive following in America; why do you think that this line-up - this selection of songs - will be so successful now?
JH: That’s part of the reason, actually. I think that if people hear some of the tracks... Like, one of my favorite band's that’s on this is Mega City Four. I think maybe they got a CD out here in the States, but it certainly wasn’t well distributed. It’s a great, great tune, Wallflower.
RQ: Wallflower, yeah.
JH: I think that if people are listening along, they are not necessarily going to know it when they look at the track listing, but if they give the music a chance, they are really going to fall in love with it. There are a number of bands that are on here that are not going to be familiar names to U.S. record buyers, but we are kind of hoping that the ones who are well known will be enough to draw people in enough to give the whole box a listen, and I think that there will be a lot of things that they will discover and really get turned onto.
RQ: The other thing that I want to speak to you about, and talk to you about, is this idea that now it is sort of official that this new wave of British artists - and I’m talking about KT Tunstall, Amy Winehouse, Lily Allen, James Blunt - it’s now sort of official that British artists are doing the best they’ve ever done in America since the original British invasion in the 1960s, in terms of time spent in the charts and revenues generated in America: Do you think your box set, in that respect, is particularly well timed?
JH: It certainly can’t hurt that we’ve got some high profile artists coming over from England and tearing up the charts, and some of the others that are making big names, and so are the alternatives, like the Arctic Monkeys and Bloc Party. It’s a good time in terms of awareness of British music, both with conventional radio play and also the medium of the Internet that didn’t really exist back in the ‘90s when this stuff was being recorded, that’s on the Brit Box. Now the word gets spread a lot more quickly and easily, and I think that is going to help the sales as well.
RQ: I’ve heard it said that some of these bands, for example, The Trash Can Sinatras and Obscurity Knocks; what a great song - I’ve heard it said that if that song had been released in the era of the Internet, they might have been massive.
JH: Right.
RQ: There’s always this idea - these alternative scenarios; the “what-ifs” and “what could have happened,” and by releasing this and putting all of these songs you have in one box set and four CDs, some of the very best British music of that time, and you’ve hand picked them and put them altogether in one very convenient package. Hunting down these songs on your own would take an eternity, and obviously at that time there was no Internet to really spread the word; there was no MySpace to spread the word of mouth. So, one thing I love about this new box set is that you are giving a new lease of life and exposing bands that obviously have now long since disbanded.
JH: Yeah, it’s a set that was put together in many ways by fans for fans. It’s sort of an invitation to check some of these groups out a little bit further. Some of the bigger names; most people that buy this set are already going to have perhaps some Oasis records and some Blur records, and some Smiths, and maybe some Ride records. Again, some of the more obscure groups that they wouldn’t have heard. It’s sort of suggestion to them to say, “Hey, go out and look around. There’s all sorts of great stuff that was being recorded back then that didn’t necessarily get distributed well, but it’s out there.” Also, some of the new groups that are still worth listening to.
RQ: Let me ask you then, John, as a fan of British music: Why are you attracted to British music? Is there something about the music that identifies it as being uniquely British?
JH: I’m not sure that it is specifically British content as much as the style that seems to be in vogue over in England more so than here in America. Again, the sort of melodic guitar rock, where it’s important to have a song that’s got a memorable melody and a structure. Interestingly, it’s got to have some catchy hooks to it. You turn on the radio here in the States and you don’t necessarily hear an awful lot of that. That I think is what I always look for. I listen to a lot of different things, including power pop and garage rock, and for me it’s the songs. If you’ve got a really good song, I will give it a listen. It’s not a really great time for that to hear on the radio in the States. I think the Brits have got a better handle on it that some of the American groups, to be honest with you.
RQ: Bob Lefsetz wrote that KT Tunstall is uniquely British because in America, she never would have made it, because she isn’t completely glamorous, so to speak. She’s got that kind of rough, scruffy edge about her that the British seem to have, you know. It’s not a completely commercially sold out, 'perfect' image.
JH: I think that that sort of angle on it is certainly true to an extent that there are a lot of filters in American music. You’ve got to pass certain tests in terms of being marketable and things like that, whereas I think that the atmosphere in Britain in terms of listening to music and reading music and all that stuff; it’s a lot more about looking for a new discovery; something interesting; something worthwhile. I think it’s easier for a new act to rise to the top in England than it is in America. I know working from the record company’s side - although we don’t do an awful lot with new music here at Rhino - it takes a long time for a band to rise to the top, between when a band is starting out and when people are actually ready to listen to it. A lot of times they will sort of fall by the wayside. A lot of the groups that are on the Brit Box, they sort of came up pretty quickly. I’m thinking of Menswear and Suede, that made it to the cover of magazines, basically upon their first single release, or maybe even before that. Getting on to a cover of a magazine in America takes a band a long time.
RQ: Tell us about the actual box. Obviously everyone can identify immediately the classic red British telephone box.
JH: Right.
RQ: And then you turn on this little switch on the back and the lights flash at the top, as if music is obviously playing inside the telephone box. That's brilliant -whose idea was it to do that?
JH: Credit for that goes to Hugh Brown, who is the mad scientist that has done a lot of the design for Rhino. He was a Grammy nominee for our Brain in the Box, and some of these other things. When we first pitched the idea for this box, we wanted to get a cover that was basically three things: It had to say cool; it had to say British; and it had to say music. The British thing - the phone booth - was one of the natural choices. It was either that or we were thinking Big Ben, but this worked out well. The shape of the box - it’s a 6” x 12” box - so it fits really nicely. And all the stickers on it, that sort of covered the music angle, but when he came up with the idea that we could have these flashing lights at the top of the phone booth, I thought that was a really cool idea. That sort of sealed it for me. I was surprised that it was something that we could actually afford to do, because it’s certainly a one-of-a-kind package.
RQ: Yeah, yeah definitely.
JH: Flashing at you from the bins of the stores!
RQ: Let me ask you if you had to pick just two or three songs then, on the four CDs, that personally are your favorites, what would they be?
JH: There are so many good ones. If I had to select them, I might pick three things that I might not have heard if I hadn’t actually worked on this box, like the Pale Saints’ Side of You. I had heard the Ride cover - they did a BBC CD - so I was vaguely familiar with the song, but the original version just knocked me out the first time I heard it. The Swervedriver track; when I first was putting together my little list of things to suggest for this, I was probably going to pick Song of Mustang Ford or something else by them. But then somebody handed me a copy of Mezcal Head and said, “Hey, check this out,” and Duel just blew me away. Also, I am not sure how I could have missed this, but Something for the Weekend by The Divine Comedy. That’s another track. Once I heard it, I could not turn it off.
RQ: Okay, final question then. What are your predictions then, John, for the future of British music in America? Do you foresee that it is going to continue to go as well as it has done for the brits in America? What do you foresee in the future for British artists?
JH: I wish I had a crystal ball! There is certainly a lot of interest out there. To me, when I look at the artists on this box, the ones that I’ve seen actually come over to America and done the work in terms of touring, and radio station visits, and in-stores, and things like that - it’s paid off. It’s just that it takes a long time. I think that artists that are willing to come over here and make the rounds, not just through LA and New York, they will find a receptive audience out there. I think there is certainly room for more stars along the lines of, like, Coldplay, and Keane, and Snow Patrol. I think it is a good time to visit the States if you’re a British musician.
RQ: John, thank you very much for your time.
JH: Absolutely.
Links:The Brit Box
